This page originates from:  

The articles collected by: Mr. Benjamin Crocker Works, Director
SIRIUS: The Strategic Issues Research Institute
www.siri-us.com
E-mail: BenWorks@aol.Com
The original page is at: Sirius Kosovo Archive ***

ARCHIVE: Ethnic Cleansing in Kosovo, March - May 1999

Monday, May 31, 1999

Note: This file, intended for research purposes, contains copyrighted articles included "for fair use only."

1. Slobodan Milosevic Commemorative Speech, June 28, 1989 at Kosovo Polje Battlefield
2. Excerpt: Mischa Glenny; The Fall of Yugoslavia; description of the Commemoration
3. NY Times, May 31, 1999; The First Lady of Serbia Often Has the Last Word
4. UPI, April 30, 1999; Arnaud De Borchgrave Interview with Slobodan Milosevic
5. KHOU-TV-11 Houston, TX; April 22, 1999 Hatchett Interview with Mr. Milosevic

Introduction:

Here is President Slobodan Milosevic in his own words. As the reader will see, he makes "necessary disclosure" in a confident way, knowing his facts, his audience and the situation. Whether you believe he is "the Butcher of the Balkans" or not, he is a calculating mind and a "rational actor" in public and in negotiations. To add insight, I have included a new profile of Mr Milosevic and his wife, Mirjana Markovic --a Serbian Hillary Clinton, with her own unique twists. "Cherchez la femme."

Note that the Kosovo Polje speech was given during a commemoration centered around an Orthodox Christian religious ceremony, and the event itself was widely misreported as a secular, ultra-nationalis rally by authors such as Mischa Glenny, in an extract from his 1992 book, "The Fall of Yugoslavia." (London: Penguin, 1992), pp. 32-36. In reality, the religious service was a repetition of a 1939 anniversary event, just as Americans commemorate Lexington and Concord, Gettysburg and other battles in our annual Memorial Day and periodic commemorative events. The fact is that the chauvinist nationalist anti-Serbs were a clear and present danger to their Serb neighbors in Krajina, Slavonia, Bosnia, Herzegovina and Kosovo, and everybody knew the potential for vengeful ethnic cleansing by 1989; the Albanians of Kosovo had been cleansing Serbs since the early 1970s. During the event, former Maryland Congresswoman Helen Delich Bentley and others noticed substantial public rudeness by Albanians towards Serbs flowing to and from the event.

During Tito's time and during the period of Koaovo's autonomous Albanian government (1974-1989) a large number of Albanians infiltrated into Kosovo; many were issued fraudulent citizenship documents. These people also bought land and often built ostentatious houses, if they had made money in the West through fair or illegal means. It is clear that when NATO bombs fell, these illegal immigrants were rounded up and evicted, with their fraudulent documents being taken away at the border. Like our Mr Clinton, Milosevic minces words finely, asserting he has not moved against Albanian "citizens" (see the DeBorchgrave interview below). This is one of the matters the International Criminal Tribunal-Yugoslavia (ICTY) will attempt to judge, based on its recent indictment of Mr. Milosevic and four deputies for various crimes against humanity.

So here are a few key insights from and about Slobodan Milosevic, then and now.

Benjamin Works

The Articles:

The following is a transcription with an introduction by Jared Israel of Boston, MA. A copy of the telefaxed original text from the official source at the Department of Commerce is on file at SIRIUS.

1. 600^th Anniversary Kosovo Polje Anniversary Speech, June 28, 1989

Subj: WHAT MILOSEVICH REALLY SAID AT KOSOVO FIELD - 1ST TIME IN PRINT
Date: 99-05-05 01:02:58 EDT
From: JaredI

Dear people,

It is impossible for a society to engage in genocide unless the population is won to racism because racism is not inborn, not natural. For racism to take root, the culture and the political leadership have to support racism in deeds - and also in words.

We are told this has happened in Serbia. We are told that Slobodan Milosevich and other Serbian leaders have indoctrinated the Serbian people in hatred for non-Serbs, especially ethnic Albanians in Kosovo province. We are told that Milosevich launched this racist campaign in a speech at Kosovo Field in 1989.

The charge against Milosevich - that he preaches race hate - is significant because it supports the charge against the Serbian people - that they have been won to racism and therefore practice genocide. Because many Americans believe these charges they are disposed to believe there must be SOME truth to the avalanche of pro-war propaganda demonizing the Serbs.

So. It is important to know exactly what Milosevich said in his speech at Kosovo Field. Yet nowhere do any of those who attack Milosevich's speech quote his words. Why not?

Greg Ehlich, a political analyst/investigator, has unearthed a U.S. government transcript of the Kosovo Field speech. Please read it and ask: is it a racist diatribe, reminiscent of Hitler? Or is it something quite different, something really quite different indeed?

-- jared israel

[Speech by Slobodan Milosevic, delivered to 1 million people at the central celebration marking the 600th anniversary of the Battle of Kosovo, held at Gazimestan on 28 June, 1989]

Compiled by the National Technical Information Service of the Department of Commerce of the U.S.

By the force of social circumstances this great 600th anniversary of the Battle of Kosovo is taking place in a year in which Serbia, after many years, after many decades, has regained its state, national, and spiritual integrity. Therefore, it is not difficult for us to answer today the old question: how are we going to face Milos [Milos Obilic, legendary hero of the Battle of Kosovo]. Through the play of history and life, it seems as if Serbia has, precisely in this year, in 1989, regained its state and its dignity and thus has celebrated an event of the distant past which has a great historical and symbolic significance for its future.

Today, it is difficult to say what is the historical truth about the Battle of Kosovo and what is legend.

Today this is no longer important. Oppressed by pain and filled with hope, the people used to remember and to forget, as, after all, all people in the world do, and it was ashamed of treachery and glorified heroism. Therefore it is difficult to say today whether the Battle of Kosovo was a defeat or a victory for the Serbian people, whether thanks to it we fell into slavery or we survived in this slavery. The answers to those questions will be constantly sought by science and the people. What has been certain through all the centuries until our time today is that disharmony struck Kosovo 600 years ago? If we lost the battle, then this was not only the result of social superiority and the armed advantage of the Ottoman Empire but also of the tragic disunity in the leadership of the Serbian state at that time. In that distant 1389, the Ottoman Empire was not only stronger than that of the Serbs but it was also more fortunate than the Serbian kingdom.

The lack of unity and betrayal in Kosovo will continue to follow the Serbian people like an evil fate through the whole of its history. Even in the last war, this lack of unity and betrayal led the Serbian people and Serbia into agony, the consequences of which in the historical and moral sense exceeded fascist aggression.

Even later, when a socialist Yugoslavia was set up, in this new state the Serbian leadership remained divided, prone to compromise to the detriment of its own people. The concessions that many Serbian leaders made at the expense of their people could not be accepted historically and ethically by any nation in the world, especially because the Serbs have never in the whole of their history conquered and exploited others. Their national and historical being has been liberational throughout the whole of history and through two world wars, as it is today. They liberated themselves and when they could they also helped others to liberate themselves. The fact that in this region they are a major nation is not a Serbian sin or shame; this is an advantage which they have not used against others, but I must say that here, in this big, legendary field of Kosovo, the Serbs have not used the advantage of being great for their own benefit either.

Thanks to their leaders and politicians and their vassal mentality they felt guilty before themselves and others. This situation lasted for decades, it lasted for years and here we are now at the field of Kosovo to say that this is no longer the case.

Disunity among Serb officials made Serbia lag behind and their inferiority humiliated Serbia. Therefore, no place in Serbia is better suited for saying this than the field of Kosovo and no place in Serbia is better suited than the field of Kosovo for saying that unity in Serbia will bring prosperity to the Serbian people in Serbia and each one of its citizens, irrespective of his national or religious affiliation.

Serbia of today is united and equal to other republics and prepared to do everything to improve its financial and social position and that of all its citizens. If there is unity, cooperation, and seriousness, it will succeed in doing so. This is why the optimism that is now present in Serbia to a considerable extent regarding the future days is realistic, also because it is based on freedom, which makes it possible for all people to express their positive, creative and humane abilities aimed at furthering social and personal life.

Serbia has never had only Serbs living in it. Today, more than in the past, members of other peoples and nationalities also live in it. This is not a disadvantage for Serbia. I am truly convinced that it is its advantage. National composition of almost all countries in the world today, particularly developed ones, has also been changing in this direction. Citizens of different nationalities, religions, and races have been living together more and more frequently and more and more successfully.

Socialism in particular, being a progressive and just democratic society, should not allow people to be divided in the national and religious respect. The only differences one can and should allow in socialism are between hard working people and idlers and between honest people and dishonest people. Therefore, all people in Serbia who live from their own work, honestly, respecting other people and other nations, are in their own republic.

After all, our entire country should be set up on the basis of such principles. Yugoslavia is a multinational community and it can survive only under the conditions of full equality for all nations that live in it.

The crisis that hit Yugoslavia has brought about national divisions, but also social, cultural, religious and many other less important ones. Among all these divisions, nationalist ones have shown themselves to be the most dramatic. Resolving them will make it easier to remove other divisions and mitigate the consequences they have created.

For as long as multinational communities have existed, their weak point has always been the relations between different nations. The threat is that the question of one nation being endangered by the others can be posed one day -- and this can then start a wave of suspicions, accusations, and intolerance, a wave that invariably grows and is difficult to stop. This threat has been hanging like a sword over our heads all the time. Internal and external enemies of multi-national communities are aware of this and therefore they organize their activity against multinational societies mostly by fomenting national conflicts. At this moment, we in Yugoslavia are behaving as if we have never had such an experience and as if in our recent and distant past we have never experienced the worst tragedy of national conflicts that a society can experience and still survive.

Equal and harmonious relations among Yugoslav peoples are a necessary condition for the existence of Yugoslavia and for it to find its way out of the crisis and, in particular, they are a necessary condition for its economic and social prosperity. In this respect Yugoslavia does not stand out from the social milieu of the contemporary, particularly the developed, world. This world is more and more marked by national tolerance, national cooperation, and even national equality. The modern economic and technological, as well as political and cultural development, has guided various peoples toward each other, has made them interdependent and increasingly has made them equal as well [medjusobno ravnopravni]. Equal and united people can above all become a part of the civilization toward which mankind is moving. If we cannot be at the head of the column leading to such a civilization, there is certainly no need for us to be at is tail.

At the time when this famous historical battle was fought in Kosovo, the people were looking at the stars, expecting aid from them. Now, 6 centuries later, they are looking at the stars again, waiting to conquer them. On the first occasion, they could allow themselves to be disunited and to have hatred and treason because they lived in smaller, weakly interlinked worlds. Now, as people on this planet, they cannot conquer even their own planet if they are not united, let alone other planets, unless they live in mutual harmony and solidarity.

Therefore, words devoted to unity, solidarity, and cooperation among people have no greater significance anywhere on the soil of our motherland than they have here in the field of Kosovo, which his a symbol of disunity and treason.

In the memory of the Serbian people, this disunity was decisive in causing the loss of the battle and in bringing about the fate which Serbia suffered for a full 6 centuries.

Even if it were not so, from a historical point of view, it remains certain that the people regarded disunity as its greatest disaster. Therefore it is the obligation of the people to remove disunity, so that they may protect themselves from defeats, failures, and stagnation in the future.

This year, the Serbian people became aware of the necessity of their mutual harmony as the indispensable condition for their present life and further development.

I am convinced that this awareness of harmony and unity will make it possible for Serbia not only to function as a state but to function as a successful state. Therefore I think that it makes sense to say this here in Kosovo, where that disunity once upon a time tragically pushed back Serbia for centuries and endangered it, and where renewed unity may advance it and may return dignity to it. Such an awareness about mutual relations constitutes an elementary necessity for Yugoslavia, too, for its fate is in the joined hands of all its peoples.

The Kosovo heroism has been inspiring our creativity for 6 centuries, and has been feeding our pride and does not allow us to forget that at one time we were an army great, brave, and proud, one of the few that remained undefeated when losing.

Six centuries later, now, we are being again engaged in battles and are facing battles. They are not armed battles, although such things cannot be excluded yet. However, regardless of what kind of battles they are, they cannot be won without resolve, bravery, and sacrifice, without the noble qualities that were present here in the field of Kosovo in the days past. Our chief battle now concerns implementing the economic, political, cultural, and general social prosperity, finding a quicker and more successful approach to a civilization in which people will live in the 21st century. For this battle, we certainly need heroism, of course of a somewhat different kind, but that courage without which nothing serious and great can be achieved remains unchanged and remains urgently necessary.

Six centuries ago, Serbia heroically defended itself in the field of Kosovo, but it also defended Europe. Serbia was at that time the bastion that defended the European culture, religion, and European society in general. Therefore today it appears not only unjust but even unhistorical and completely absurd to talk about Serbia's belonging to Europe. Serbia has been a part of Europe incessantly, now just as much as it was in the past, of course, in its own way, but in a way that in the historical sense never deprived it of dignity. In this spirit we now endeavor to build a society, rich and democratic, and thus to contribute to the prosperity of this beautiful country, this unjustly suffering country, but also to contribute to the efforts of all the progressive people of our age that they make for a better and happier world.

Let the memory of Kosovo heroism live forever!

Long live Serbia!

Long live Yugoslavia!

Long live peace and brotherhood among peoples!

2. Excerpt Describing the Kosovo Polje Speech of June 28, 1989

Mischa Glenny, The Fall of Yugoslavia; (London: Penguin, 1992) pp. 34-35

"On 28, June, Serbia's most sacred day, Vidovdan, 1989, Prishtina was its usual sticky self as hundreds of buses pulled out of the town. Within minutes, the buses were bogged down in a viscous sea of Serb peasants who had come to pay homage to their dead of 600 years ago. Their accents revealed the sing-song rhythm of Vojvodina, the long drawl of Uzice or the grammatically precise language of Serbs from eastern Herzegovina --not to mention the smooth, central-Canadian dialect of Toronto and the piercing tongue of the Melbourne Serbs. The final path to the meadow of Gazimestan was a heaving mass of ordinary folk, for whom Cecil B. DeMille would have died. Of course, the festivities included a number of regional types of Serbian dances, the Srpsko Kolo, Serbian songs, readings from nationalist literature, backed by choruses sporting traditional dress, tutus and some garments whose style and cut were so peculiar as to render their origin unintelligible. The colourful dresses were worn by an unlikely mixture of communists, Orthodox Christians, and monarchists with one thing in common-- they were all Serbs.

The Field of Blackbirds, as the Serbian settlement of Kosovo Polje is known in English, was turned into an infinite expanse of Serbia's imagined glory, dominated by one image over all others -- Slobodan Milosevic. This gross display of Serbiana, in the heart of an area populated largely by Albanians, did not go unnoticed in the rest of Yugoslavia. Milosevic's speech was carefully measured and not hysterical --but it contained some unmistakable warnings: `Six centuries [after the battle of Kosovo Polje], we are again engaged in battles and quarrels. They are not armed battles, but this cannot be excluded yet.' His message to the Slovenes, Croats, Muslims, Albanians and Macedonians was clear: `Look with what ease I can mobilize over 1 million Serbs.' Gazimestan was the opening move in a rather chilling numbers game in which the players bluffed about how many of their people they could afford to lose before it would begin to erode their political power."

New York Times, May 31, 1999
3. The First Lady of Serbia Often Has the Last Word

By STEVEN ERLANGER

4. Text of Milosevic interview with UPI

BELGRADE, April 30 (UPI) - Here is the transcript of Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic's interview Thursday with UPI's Arnaud de Borchgrave:

Q: What do you hope to get out of this?

Milosevic: I find it hard to believe what is happening. America is a great country and Americans great people. But your leaders are not strategic thinkers. Short-term quick fixes, yes. They said let's bomb Yugoslavia and then figure out what to do next. Some said Milosevic would give up Kosovo after a few days of aggression from the air. To set out to destroy a country for a pretext no one can buy is simply unbelievable. I don't expect to get anything out of this because I did not start it. You may recall there were no refugees before March 24 when the NATO aggression started. But the Clinton administration did expect to get something out of this terrible decision. I understand you had two general goals. One dealing with Europe, the other with the Balkans.

First is to prove U.S. leadership in Europe and the second to re-establish U.S. leadership in NATO in the post-Cold War era. Regretfully, we were targeted as a guinea pig to achieve those goals. Simply because of our weaknesses and of the internal problems we faced. But, as you know, you will find in at least 100 countries around the world different ethnic separatist movements. If you decide to support separatist movements it is very hard to believe any country can survive. There are 4,000 ethnic groups in the world and only 185 members of the United Nations. In Yugoslavia, we have 26 different ethnic groups. Any one of them could cause trouble if agitated from the outside. Which is what happened in Kosovo. In Belgrade, we have 100,000 Yugoslav Albanians. And never a problem with them.

Walk from our Parliament building and you will see many shops with their Albanian names. Not one window smashed here in all those years of violence in Kosovo. Our people never considered them responsible for the behavior of the so-called Kosovo Liberation Army terrorists. In Kosovo, Albanian Kosovars were bigger victims of the KLA than Kosovar Serbs. When we looked at the figures the number of Albanians killed by them was twice as large as Serbs dead. They simply terrorized Albanians to join their underground and impose their idea of an ethnically pure state. That movement is Nazi in its character because of their publicly declared goals of a racially pure state. Where can you find such a state in the world today? It is precisely the opposite of what is happening in the world. Ethnically mixed states is the trend in the new global village. The Kosovar terrorists were trying to reverse a global phenomenon.

Q: Which you then attempted to do in Kosovo after March 24?

Milosevic: Absolutely not. That is the big lie which, repeated often enough, becomes conventional wisdom.

Q: Satellite recon shows entire villages torched?

Milosevic: Individual houses, yes. But not whole villages as we saw on TV in Vietnam when American forces torched villages suspected of hiding Viet Cong.

Q: Just in the past 10 years, the Soviet Union has become 15 independent republics. Four former republics of Yugoslavia have declared their independence. Scotland and Wales are moving toward self-rule. As we approach the next millennium, it is becoming increasingly obvious that the nation-state is too big for small problems - and too small for big problems. Devolution is going on everywhere. Why not in Kosovo? What is so important there?

Milosevic: To us, Kosovo is critically important because it is the heart of country (sic) and an integral part of our long history. It is also home to a quarter of million Serbs whose forebears have lived there for centuries. It is also home to some 5,000 Christian churches. A Swiss expert categorized 1,800 of them as historical monuments that are the heritage of world civilization and that list was sent to President Clinton.

Q: After thousands of NATO strikes against Yugoslavia, most of your country's communications and transportation networks, as well as your petroleum production and storage capacity, have been largely destroyed, along with your principal bridges, or about $100 billion worth of damage and about 1,000 killed. Now NATO is raising the total number of warplanes in action against you from 700 to 1,000. Are you prepared to see Yugoslavia's entire infrastructure destroyed?

Milosevic: We never thought we could defeat NATO, an alliance of some 700 million people armed with the most advanced and sophisticated weaponry in the world. But NATO believes it can pick on a small nation and force us to surrender our independence. And that is where NATO miscalculated. You are not willing to sacrifice lives to achieve our surrender. But we are willing to die to defend our rights as an independent sovereign nation.

The U.S. Congress is beginning to understand that bombing a country into compliance is not a viable policy or strategy. I think your strategic thinkers are also beginning to understand that missiles and other sophisticated weapons will not always be the monopoly of high-tech societies. And with the example it is now setting, we can see the day when lesser nations will be able to retaliate. The development of these weapons is taking place so fast there is not a single spot on the planet that cannot be reached. America can be reached from this part of the world.

We have no quarrel with America. We all know NATO is the strongest military machine in the world. We simply want them to stop being so busy with our country and worry about their own problems. NATO was formed to defend the western democratic nations from totalitarian aggression, not to commit aggression. We just want to be left alone and free.

Q: At the cost of another month of bombing?

Milosevic: Tell me, what choice do we have?

Q: It seems to be that left alone is not an option in what you called a global village. Doesn't your future lie with the European Union in an increasingly integrated Europe? This will require compromise to end this war. Surely the rest of Europe has a stake in what happens in Yugoslavia. Doesn't EU have a role to play in this impasse? Isolation is not an answer.

Milosevic: Just the opposite. In fact, our policy has been consistent on this front. We launched a series of initiatives with a view to increasing integration in the Balkans. We had a highly successful conference in Crete a year ago. I met with the Albanian prime minister in an attempt to normalize relations completely with open borders and freedom of movement, free trade and so forth. My point to him was that borders in Europe were becoming irrelevant and that we could not be holdouts against these trends. European countries have no other choice than to cooperate and integrate. We had a follow-up conference of all the southeastern European nations in Istanbul. I suggested to Bulgaria we do the same we had already done with Macedonia, namely abolish customs duties and open borders for free trade.

The same was offered to Bosnia and all other states in the region. With a very simple idea in mind. We are all market economies now. In fact, Yugoslavia is a little bit ahead in this respect having started before the collapse of the Soviet Union and communism. I told all my neighbors that we could not afford to wait to enter EU one by one in the years ahead. We had to do something together as a region which would then facilitate joining the wider European enterprise later but earlier than would otherwise be the case. Parallel with this was the process of privatization which we started long before our former communist neighbors.

We privatized our telecommunications 18 months ago with Italian and Greek companies. Telecom Serbia is now 50 percent owned by foreign entities. Up and down the line our policy has been one of integration, not isolation. Your policy has been to isolate us and demonize us and get NATO to treat us as a pariah state.

Q: After you walked away from the Rambouillet accords on Kosovo, did you really expect more than a month of sustained bombing?

Milosevic: Rambouillet was not a negotiation. It was a Clinton administration diktat. It wasn't take it or leave it. Just take it or else. We did not expect bombing. It was unbelievable to us that even as an excuse that we didn't want to sign something that we weren't even negotiating it would be used to bomb us as the Nazis did in World War II. Rambouillet was a recipe for the independence of Kosovo, which clearly we could not accept. Especially given the fact that we never contemplated depriving Kosovar Albanians of their legitimate rights. The proof is what happened when half a million Serbs were forced out of Croatia. We never retaliated by expelling a single Croat from Serbia.

When Serbs were expelled from Bosnia, we protected all our Muslims from retaliation. We never considered Muslims in Yugoslavia were responsible for what happened in Bosnia. Of course there were irresponsible Serb politicians in Bosnia making all kinds of demagogic threats. But this was heated rhetoric. Foreign visitors are invariably impressed at how we handle our unique minorities problems. Go to Vojvodina in the north and see how the Hungarian minority of 360,000 is treated - it after Hungary became a member of NATO and has now offered its bases to American warplanes to attack us. They have schooling in their own language, their own newspapers and radio and TV programs. Twenty-six such communities enjoy the same rights. There is no other way in such a diversified society. It has been our philosophy from the very beginning. In Kosovo as well. Equality was the basic principle in Kosovo.

Without equality between the two communities there would be no basis for durable peace.

That was our approach for Rambouillet. But the American approach was to favorize the Albanian community. This could only lead to ethnic cleansing of anyone who was not of Albanian origin. Serbs clearly could not have stayed under the overlordship of Albanians. There are 250,000 Serbs in Kosovo and 200,000 Muslim Serbs who are not of Albanian origin but whose families converted to Islam under the Ottoman Empire. Then you have 150,000 Gypsies and 50,000 Turks. Even this last community has its own newspaper and TV program. U.S. diplomats knowledgeable about Kosovo have confirmed that we were indeed respecting those principles. So I said to them, "OK, gentlemen, now please put those principles into the Rambouillet agreement." Equality means nothing unless incorporated into the institutions.

Q: And how did you propose to do this in practice?

Milosevic: Very simple. Takes only one minute to explain. The parliament in Kosovo has to be composed of two houses. The lower house elected on the basis of one-citizen one-vote and the other house to be made up of national communities, with each community entitled to five representatives. That way everyone is guaranteed against majority domination. That way, too, Serbs could not impose anything on Albanians and vice versa. When I talked to Ibrahim Rugova (the moderate Kosovar Albanian leader), we agreed that it was in our common interest to have real peace, welfare for all citizens, clean towns and villages and develop industry.

But at the back of the minds of Kosovar Albanians is how to become the masters of the rest of the population. Several decades ago when the Albanians had complete power in their hands, they started a process of Albanization of the rest of the population. Gypsies, for example, could not register newly born child unless willing give it one of the officially recognized Albanian first names. In Rambouillet, regardless of the fact that the delegations never met, never exchanged so much as a single word, we had a delegation in which Serbs were a minority. We had three Albanians, Serb Muslims, Turks and four Serb Christians. Our delegation represented a real cross-section of Kosovo.

The Albanian Kosovars were all representatives of the Albanian separatist movement. EU's dilemma at the end of the 20th century is whether they are going to support a multi-ethnic and multi-cultural society and multi-religious approach to society or a kind of Nazi-like approach with one racially pure ethnic group ruling a diverse society like Kosovo. Henry Kissinger said Rambouillet was a mechanism for permanent creation of problems and confrontation. President Clinton should have listened to this wise geopolitical expert rather than some of his own less knowledgeable advisers.

Q: So how do we get out of this mess?

Milosevic: A political process, not by more bombing.

Q: But you must be prepared to compromise.

Milosevic: From the beginning of April I have had five meetings with Rugova. He was not a prisoner or under duress. This week, the President of Serbia went to Pristina (the capital of Kosovo) and he and Rugova signed a statement of agreed joint principles, which called for respect for the equality of national communities, respect for the equality of all citizens, direct negotiations, because U.S. shuttle diplomacy was completely useless as Rambouillet demonstrated. So we have ourselves begun a real political process.

This first joint statement with the Albanian Kosovar leader is the first joint victory in our struggle for peace. At the same time we have been talking about the formation of a temporary joint executive board for Kosovo composed of representatives of all national communities in Kosovo. Its first task will be to help refugees return home. The problem for returning refugees will be bombing. So clearly this insanity will have to stop. Before bombing, regardless of what you hear from NATO and Pentagon briefings, there were no refugees. It wasn't only the Albanians who fled, but also the Serbs, Turks, everyone.

Q: Are you saying that the idea of a U.S.Trusteeship or protectorate is a non-starter in your mind?

Milosevic: Please tell me why a U.N. protectorate is needed. That is not to say we are against a U.N. mission. Before the war, we accepted 2, 000 verifiers from OSCE. It was OSCE's biggest ever mission. We also had in Kosovo the International Red Cross and the United Nations High Commission for Refugees, both with huge missions. Plus 1,000 journalists from all over the world, with no restrictions. Plus Kosovo Observation Diplomatic Mission run by Embassies from Belgrade. All this in Kosovo. So who could say we were not open to the international community? They were all free to verify what was happening in this small territory. But this was abused.

Q: How?

Milosevic: Foreign diplomatic missions were to all intents and purposes supporting KLA terrorists. Instructing them how to organize and what to do to achieve their objectives. Also to create something that would look more like a regular army. That way they were told to create the kind of situation that would make it look to the rest of the world that there was a war between the regular Yugoslav army and the KLA. The KLA was then composed of different terrorist groups. Just judge them by their acts. They were never able to attack any military or police unit. Instead they were taking hostages and killing civilians. One hundred and fifty hostages were never seen again. They were planting car bombs and dynamiting supermarkets. Classic terrorism.

Q: Are you suggesting that since the U.N. and other international organizations couldn't do anything before, you see no point in bringing them back now?

Milosevic: No, not at all. The U.N. can have a huge mission in Kosovo if it wishes. They can bear witness to the legal behavior of our law enforcement agencies and to the fact that everything is now peaceful, that the KLA has ceased to exist except for scattered small groups that can still stage ambushes.

Q: Is it possible to have a U.N. presence without a U.N. peacekeeping force?

Milosevic: We cannot accept an occupation force, whether it flies under a NATO or U.N. flag.

Q: So you accept a U.N. peacekeeping force?

Milosevic: Yes, but no army.

Q: Without weapons?

Milosevic: Self-defense weapons is normal, but no offensive weapons. We cannot accept anything that looks like an occupation. The idea behind Rambouillet was 28,000 troops, including 4,000 Americans, who would be occupying Kosovo with tanks, APCs and heavy weaponry. Kosovo has social and economic problems which an army of occupation cannot alleviate. Aid, not arms, is what Kosovo needs.

Q: So in your judgment what is the nature of a compromise between NATO and Yugoslavia?

Milosevic: I will tell you. Several points. First of all, cessation of all military activities. Second, simultaneity between the withdrawal of NATO troops now concentrated on our borders in Albania and Macedonia, on the one hand, and the decrease of our own troops in Kosovo from their present level of 100,000 to the normal garrison strength of between 11, 000 and 12,000, which was the regular Pristina Corps.

Q: You went from 40,000 to 100,000 troops in Kosovo since the bombing started?

Milosevic: Yes, because of the danger of aggression across our borders by NATO forces. Every day we heard NATO voices urging political leaders to order ground forces into action. But if the danger of NATO aggression is over, we can send our troops back to Serbia. Some are mobilized reservists and they are anxious to get back to their regular jobs.

Q: How long would such a simultaneous withdrawal take in your judgment?

Milosevic: We can do it in one week.

Q: And the third point?

Milosevic: The return of all refugees, regardless of their ethnic or religious affiliation.

Q: And when would the U.N. peacekeeping force go in? Before the refugees can return presumably.

Milosevic: I don't like the word "force." We would welcome U.N mission not what "force" implies. There is no job for forces. What would such forces do? Just ruin our roads with their tracked vehicles. We would welcome anyone, any mission, that accepts to be our guests. Their mission would be to observe that all is peaceful and not to act as an occupation force. They can see that we are not terrorizing anybody. Even now we are not terrorizing anybody. When the U.N. is here they can bear witness that what we are saying is the truth.

Q: I assume you know that NATO will not accept your idea of a compromise.

Milosevic: Well, I don't know what NATO will accept. IF NATO insists on the occupation of our country, we have no choice but to defend ourselves against this further act of aggression.

Q: If you wouldn't quibble about the word "force" for U.N. peacekeepers, the end of hostilities could be speeded up.

Milosevic: But I told you we are willing to accept a U.N. presence and are ready to negotiate its composition. But please understand that after all those crimes against our nation and its people, we cannot accept representatives of the countries that committed aggression against us. We would like to see representatives of neutral countries.

Q: Any further points?

Milosevic: My fourth point is the political process. We will continue direct negotiations with Mr. Rugova in the presence of the international community. They can listen to every single word that is spoken, but they cannot act as mediators. We want to achieve the widest possible autonomy for Kosovo within Serbia.

So we must negotiate the composition of new institutions and the local police. Before the war, there were 120 villages with elected Albanian local police. Some were killed by KLA terrorists. My fifth point is free access for UNHCR and the International Red Cross. Sixth, an economic recovery plan for the three Yugoslav federation states that have been heavily damaged by NATO aggression.

Q: Back to the composition of U.N. peacekeepers, which you don't like to call a force. Since NATO members are not acceptable, what would you see to European participation as EU, not as individual NATO countries.?

Milosevic: There are European countries that are not members of NATO, like Ireland, that would be acceptable.

Q: Contingents from Russia, Ukraine and Belarus have also been mentioned.

Milosevic: They, too, would be acceptable.

Q: Surely you are not prepared to face several more weeks of NATO bombing as the diplomatic haggling continues.

Milosevic: One more day is too much. But what choice do we have if NATO insists on occupying Yugoslavia. To that we will never surrender. We Serbs are as one on this life and death issue of national honor and sovereignty.

5. Milosevic Interview - Part 1 & 2

Date: 99-04-22 18:59:25 EDT

Houston, Texas

Thursday, April 22,1999 - 04:13 PM ET

KHOU

Milosevic Speaks Exclusively To 11 News

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(KHOU) (KHOU) HOUSTON-KHOU-TV Channel 11 broadcast the first interview since the start of the NATO conflict the world has seen with Yugoslavian President Slobodan Milosevic, Wednesday, April 21.

Excerpts of the copyrighted interview aired on 11 News at 5, 6, and 10pm with full-hour program, 9:00-10pm CDT.

The exclusive interview was conducted by KHOU News Military Analyst Dr. Ron Hatchett inside the Yugoslavian "White Palace" in Belgrade Monday April 19. Dr. Hatchett has been reporting for KHOU from Belgrade since shortly after NATO forces began air attacks last month.

Dr. Hatchett serves as a military analyst for KHOU-TV and is currently a professor and director of the Center for International Studies at The University of Saint Thomas in Houston, Texas. He also served the United States in military and governmental capacities including senior positions with the U.S. Air Force, Department of Defense, and the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Here is a partial transcript of the interview:

Dr. Hatchett:  President Milosevic I want to thank you for agreeing to meet with me today at a time when there are great difficulties between our two countries. I think that our conversation today will help the American people understand a little better what is happening here in Serbia and what the Serbian point of view in this conflict is.

As you know, in the American press, you're not pictured very well. President Clinton says that you are the butcher of the Balkans, he says that you're another Hitler, that you're a madman that you're the cause of all the problems that we've here in the Balkans for the last 10 years. Who are you really? Who are you as a person?

President Milosevic:  Well, good question. It gives me the opportunity to explain to American audience what the problem is.

And the problem is following. Your government is running two wars against Yugoslavia. Against our people. One is military war and the other war is media war or if you like it better, propaganda war. Propaganda war started long before military war and its goal was to (demonize) this country, our people, leadership of this country, individuals, and whatever was needed to create artificially of course, public opinion in United States which will be supportive to aggression they committed later.

And uh, that media war is showing clearly that their intention to commit aggression for having the long preparation before. So, we are victims of both of those wars. In first case in military war, victims are just for now our civilians and our country everywhere but in media war, victims are not only us. Victim is as well American democracy. If you're lying your citizens and if you're continually trying to create artificial

public opinion based on uh false informations, on wrong informations you cannot call it democratic. You cannot tell to the world that you are doing something fair and fine.

So I believe that uh, this kind of contacts and more than that the presence of a lot of journalists from abroad in this country will help to the world to know the truth about our country.

Dr. Hatchett:  I think the American people would like to know a little bit more about you as a person though. Have you always been a politician, have you always been in politics?

President Milosevic:  Oh no, I was not politician. I professionally ·I was professionally working in industry for a long time and then I was banker· for 8 years. I was President of largest Yugoslav bank· at that time we were dealing with a lot of American banks and I had a lot of friends in the United States from that time.

(He goes on to talk about how the bank was successful and opened a lot of joint ventures etc in other countries)

(Dr. Hatchett asks about Yugoslav economy then the conversation returns to the NATO conflict)

Dr. Hatchett:  The immediate cause of the problems between our two countries, according to President Clinton, is the failure of Yugoslavia to agree to the terms of the negotiations in France, first at Rambouillet then later at Paris. Uh, why was it that Yugoslavia did not sign that agreement?

President Milosevic:  (Hmmph!) You use the term negotiated. There were no negotiations at all. And your audience have to know that. In all those three long weeks, two in Rambouillet and one in Paris, there was no one single meeting between delegations to talk to each other. Albanians and Serbs and others in state delegations couldn't exchange one single word, so there were not any negotiations.

And look to delegations. On one side, you have delegation of Serbia composed of everybody who was living in Kosovo and who lives in Kosovo. Representatives of all national communities. Serbs, Albanians, three Albanian parties were represented in Serbian delegation. They are citizens of this country of course and that's so normal. Serbs, Albanians, Turks, and Muslims, Gypsy, Egyptians, (unintelligible), All seven of different national communities were represented in the delegation.

On the other side it was delegation of separation movement, not Albanian delegation. Albanians are in a delegation of Serbia as well. Delegation of separation movement purely Albanian and that's something which can explain the major differences in our approach.

Our approach from the very beginning of talks was that Kosovo problem can be solved on the basis of principle of equality for all citizens living in the region and of all national communities living in the region. So our approach is multi-ethnic, multi-cultural, multi-religious insisting upon equality of national communities that regardless to their number. On the other side, that is approach of your state department in alliance with those guys from separation movement which is favoring Albanians. Which is giving to them the right to be the monsters of rest of population and you must know was the structure of population is, in Kosovo.

There are Serbs in (unintelligible) Quarter million of them who are living there and their grandfathers of their grandfathers uh live there before one single Albanian came from the mountain. That is ancient Serbian territory with thousands of Serbian monasteries and monuments and so on. But so a quarter million of Serbs, 200,000 of Muslims, 150,000 of Egyptians, about 50,000 of Turks. Even Turks who are our smallest national community in Kosovo they have their schools they have their radio and TV program. They have their editing house Something in Turkish language.

So what is the problem if there are only 50,000 comparing with let us say 8 to 900,000 Albanians? In terms of equality, they must have same rights as national community and they must participate in the institutions of Kosovo in a equal footing on the basis of that, and that was crucial difference between those two approaches.

And, uh practically what was tried to be imposed in Rambouillet was not autonomy at all that was independence. And I really don't believe if you show it to any honest American that there is one single honest American that will tell you if they were in the place of our delegation would sign it. We are talking on autonomy, we are talking on [e]quality, on equal approach to interest of all national community, not on independence of Albanian separation movement which had by that agreement, so called agreement. Practically the right to organize new state within Serbia. They have their state, that is Albania that is their national state. In Serbia they are national minority they are living everywhere in Serbia and I want to add to you something very important. In Serbia there are 26 different national minorities.

Even the separation movement was not using the arms before you came. Before your representative came to tell them, to supply them, and to make the alliance with those killers, rapists, kidnappers and drug dealers who are collected from the underground around Europe to be organized as so-called Kosovo liberation army which never existed.

That was a kind of Hollywood you know uh, just to explain that they are having some kind of military force and so on. They were never able to attack any sort of police or military unit they were able to kill somebody only from the ambush and they were clear terrorists. What else they could do they were killing people from the ambush they were putting bombs under cars or in front of markets they are taking hostages, civilians, workers from the open mine near Pristina for example. We never saw those hostages. We're afraid that all of them are killed. We don't know their destiny, where they were at the end.

And uh, I was real surprised that NATO downgraded its' dignity making alliance with those killers and drug dealers and uh, I think that uh, that kind of alliance cannot help the future.

Dr. Hatchett:  The American people, every day, see on their television all of these heart-wrenching scenes of Albanian refugees. The United Nations says now that there are over five hundred and 32-thousand that have left Kosovo. And they appear to be in a very traumatized type of condition. Is it your policy to expel all Albanians from Kosovo?

President Milosevic:  There was never policy of this country and my policy to expel any citizen of Yugoslavia from any part of this country. I must tell you when there was a war in Croatia, we protected all Croats in Serbia. We protected when there was a war in Bosnia we protected all Muslims in Serbia. We preserved all the multi-ethnic States within former Yugoslavia that is Yugoslavia the republic of Yugoslavia today with 26 different national communities. And many visitors including high level visitors visiting our country we're always saying that we are example good example of positive treatment of good treatment of national minorities. And we always have in mind that test for any democracy is treatment of minority not treatment of majority and that's the practice thatâs the policy in Yugoslavia.

And to answer your question about Albania refugees, you are right, there are lot of refugees but they are a result of bombing and they are not only Albanians.

Everybody's running away because of bombing. Serbs, Turks, Gypsy, Muslims, of course, Albanians their number is biggest. Everybody's running. Deers are running, birds are running everybody's running away because of bombing. Bees are running everybody's running away and who can who can really ask to understand that civilian population cannot play the role of heroes staying in their places when bombs are getting down. That is not possible.

And uh, you know that before 24th of march when they started damn bombing they started their dirty aggression against this country there was no one single refugee. When they started bombing, refugees appears of course as a result of bombing and everybody knows it. Uh, but uh, connected with that bombing you're not throwing only bombs from your aircraft, you are throwing small piece of paper with the messages of NATO explaining that to our people.

Do you know what we did with those small leaves with messages of NATO? They expected we would collect that and hide it from our citizen not to see that, that was in our language of course. We presented that on t-v from both sides, all those leaves. We presented that on TV without any uh further explanation because of fact that 11 million of citizens of this country they already know the truth. We are not afraid to broadcast uh propaganda of NATO thrown through those humiliating leaves, for them humiliating from their aircrafts.

But problem is in United States, you don't have protection. Our protection is the truth and the fact that people knows what the situation is. United States, average American cannot know what really is here he must believe to propaganda to those piles of lies which are broadcast every day.

Dr. Hatchett:  You know, that's one of those things about the media. We have a comedian in American in the 1920's, 1930's named Will Rogers that said "all I know is what I read in the newspapers." Well, to modernize that, all the American people know is what they see on TV and the images they see on TV so how do you explain the fact that many of these refugees from Kosovo are talking about (being) driven out of our homes by the Serbs?

The Serbs come and knock on our door tell us that we have to leave within ten minutes and they take all of our possessions and we have to leave. How do you explain when the NATO briefer, Jamie Shea says and shows pictures on television that says here are satellite pictures of what we believe to be mass graves, how do you explain these things?

President Milosevic:  Well, those who you saw on TV were told to say that. And, by the people, by those killers, rapists, and kidnappers who are not terrorizing only Serbs and other non-Albanian population in Kosovo they are terrorizing Albanians as well. I must tell you it is a tragic situation with Albanians in Kosovo.

They are manipulated. They are terrorized by those killers and kidnappers, those rapists those narco dealers uh, I will tell you a simple fact, when you look to the numbers of peaceful citizens killed by (unintelligible) [KLA].

In Kosovo, the number of Albanians who were killed by that so-called Kosovo Liberation Army is twice bigger the number of Serbs. They were killing Albanians to discipline them. Uh, to send a message to them that they all have to support them that they all have to pay to them fees, and they all have to pay if they are called under their so-called flag, so what, what simple peaceful Albanian average Albanian can stay if he is told to stay otherwise he will be killed he will stay with terror.

They want for them to stay but that was not the truth. We saw a lot of their explanations on TV just leaving country on territory or republic of Macedonia lot of them saying lot of them were asked why you are getting here. Everybody was explaining, bombs are falling down how to stay there? That was explanation.

But CNN, you know, I saw my own eyes at the beginning of this war on CNN, poor Albanian refugees walking through the snow and suffering a lot and you know, in Kosovo there was spring, no snow. And thatâs explanation for uh, uh, information from CNN.

We are looking to CNN practically everybody can see CNN all the time. CNN, sky, BBC, everything you see here, so uh nothing special they are paid to lie. That is in nowadays media I believe is even most dangerous arm than those bombs or rockets, that is most dangerous arm and they started with that media war or that propaganda war long before they started military war.

But, we uh said publicly we have organized return of those refugees that we cannot count with ending of bombing and people is afraid. One pretty big number who was getting back was bombed by NATO aircraft 75 citizens all Albanians were killed. And uh, several dozens were wounded badly.

So, how to restore uh, their confidence in safety if they're exposed to be bombed that way. Nobody could make the mistake in sunny day to confuse between ordinary tractors and peasants with tanks and military units that was out of question. And I uh believe that was done by purpose to send message to them it's not their business to come back.

NATO is creating refugees. That is their tactic to create as much refugees as possible to empty Kosovo if possible. To have a lot of refugees outside and then to say, that is the alibi for NATO to get here, to help to deliver humanitarian help to helpthose refugees to get back. They can't get back immediately only obstacle to them is NATO bombing.

(The) only obstacle to political process, which is going on despite the bombing, is bombing.

Milosevic Interview Part 2

Dr. Hatchett:  Let's talk about the political process. Obviously there are lots of people on both sides of this issue, even people in America that are concerned about continuing a maximum position of NATO and trying to solve this thing solely by military means because they think the cost in terms of economic costs and in terms of human costs both to your country and to our country may be much higher than either one of our people want to pay.

So I think both peoples would like to see some kind of political settlement to this situation and if we hold to the maximum positions that each side has right now uh, there may not be any progress. It will delay progress· so, what do you see as a possibility for some negotiated political settlement of this problem in the near term?

President Milosevic:  Well, I believe that uh, when aggression stops when bombing stop, then it will be very easy to continue political process but taking into account experience from Rambouillet and Paris, it is so clear that negotiations have to direct between those who will live in Kosovo. Between representatives of national communities who live in Kosovo. Not between government of Yugoslavia or government of Serbia and let us say representatives of international community.

We said very clearly we will welcome civilian United Nation mission to witness what happened there and to witness the process of political settlement as well, and we always were open. Look to the facts. Before this war, we accepted, we received verification mission of overseas, biggest verification mission of history overseas, 2000 of them, plus UNHCR personnel plus International Red Cross, plus 1000 journalists from all around the world, plus Kosovo diplomatic observation mission composed of all diplomatic mission in the country and who would tell us we are not open to international community.

In so small territory like Kosovo with so huge verification mission OAC, and UNHCR and International Red Cross, foreign journalists, diplomats and every road open to everybody but that was not the goal. The goal was how to create instability and how to start bombing.

In Rambouillet as I said to you, we are not talking to Albanians we are talking to Americans who would like to take our territory for themselves and for NATO. And Albanians were just excuse for that. They were keeping them on side, their own, to be their alibi for doing those crimes uh which your government committed against our country and our people.

And victims are not selectively chosen, everybody's a victim, predominantly children, women, all people uh, civilians, civilians, and civilians.

Dr. Hatchett:  Are you willing as part of an agreement to re-institute autonomy in Kosovo similar to the autonomy that they had in 1989 up until 1989?

President Milosevic:  Of course, we will not change our position because of one simple fact, we had never any intention to cut any right to Albanians, they are our citizens. We don't have any idea to make damage to them, but it is clear they are living in this country they cannot make part of territory of this country and turn it into independent state.

If their formula which was tried to be deployed here, gets into practice in the world I don't see any state in the world that could survive. Look to Europe. Look to Spain, look to France, look to Belgium, to Italy, look to Africa. In Africa there is no one single country who could survive if you were allowed that kind of separation movements to take let us say a kind of legal, legal support.

So if that become practice, no one country will be safe so we are not, we are not uh, confronting that big power only in a position that we are defending ourselves. I think we are defending right to be free and to be independent and right to live in peace. That is what we are doing.

Dr. Hatchett:  Are you willing also as some part of a negotiated settlement to accept some kind of international presence that will verify for the world community that uh, the things that were agreed to in terms of the autonomy for the Albanians and their rights of all citizens are being equitably implemented?

President Milosevic:  Of course. We are ready to accept UN Civilian mission. Of course without representatives of the countries who participate in aggression against our country. We say that clearly. We are ready for that, we have nothing to hide.

Dr. Hatchett:  And you're willing also to let the international aid and charity missions to come back and do their jobs?

President Milosevic:  Absolutely. They are even now allowed to come back, but they are afraid. We never sent them out. They were afraid from bombing. That is one of their explanation why they didn't stay in Kosovo.

Let us say the International Red Cross - they stayed everywhere in conflicts, but how to be safe from bombing? They fled Kosovo, and civilians as well. They were not sent away, they simply went away to save their lives. Who can be protected by bombing?

Dr. Hatchett:  You think that even now, while the bombing is going on, if the International Red Cross or other agencies want to come back to Kosovo they would be allowed to come back?

President Milosevic:  Even now, International Red Cross and UNHCR can get back. I cannot tell you for every single humanitarian organization because of some so-called humanitarian organization were organized to support terrorism or to support separation movement being under coverage of that so-called humanitarian task.

We, our police arrested a couple of Australians who were organizing a spying network in Yugoslavia. They admitted that in front of camera. They said they are very sorry. They said that was being damage to our country. They were spying for NATO to explain where our positions they had to bomb, what was the results of their bombing and so on. They explain even that they abused the domestic personnel for that.

So we believe that International Red Cross and UNHCR can cover all those needs if they want to help the refugees. And that is something which was never under any question. They can come whenever they want.

Dr. Hatchett:  One more thing that the American people are very concerned about, Mr. Milosevic, is the fact that 3 Americans are being held as prisoners of war here. Can you assure the American people that they are in good health, all three? And that all 3 of them are being cared for in a humane way?

President Milosevic:  Well in the situation in which we are, I think the question must be, what would those civilians who are the victims of your soldiers and your pilots? And I hope you will start thinking that way, but to answer your question, we are very old people in Europe, very old with a long tradition and we are respecting prisoners of war.

Nothing will happen to your soldiers. They are treated well. They are healthy, and in everything what exists Geneva Convention is respected. So, we are civilized people. We are not to make any damage to your guys who are in prison.

Dr. Hatchett:  One of the big criticisms that President Clinton continues to say almost every time he speaks on this issue is the refusal of your government. To allow the Red Cross to come and see these prisoners as the Geneva conventions provide for. What's your reason for not allowing the Red Cross to see these prisoners?

President Milosevic:  I think that the Red Cross can visit them. I don't know that they were not allowed. I don't know where is Red Cross? Who asked for that?

If there is a Red Cross mission that is under Geneva Convention, they can see them. That is not a question at all. They can , they can... I am not an expert for the Geneva Convention, but as I know they can receive mail from their families, they must have medical care and all conditions (will be met).

Dr. Hatchett:  But your position is you would not allow the Red Cross to see these prisoners..

President Milosevic:  Red Cross is always authorized to visit Prisoners of War. Of course not every day but from time to time as it was in the rules of army but those rules are in compliance with Geneva Convention. That is not a question, I don't see a problem that way.

Dr. Hatchett:  One last question. We hear rumors in Belgrade from various people that many more aircraft have been shot down than the American press or the American administration admits to that maybe as many as 80 airplanes have been downed, that there may be other pilots of NATO countries and the United States that have been made prisoners.

Because of this uh, we've also heard rumors that your forces in Kosovo have already engaged in firefights with the special forces from the United States and special air services from the U.K. And have killed maybe 20, 24 of these kind of special soldiers that have come into Kosovo. Is this just a rumor or are these facts?

President Milosevic:  You know, it is not black and white, I cannot tell you this is just a rumor or it is just a fact that is mixed. Some are facts some are rumors. And it is so logical that NATO will not admit that. They have tried even to avoid to acknowledge killing all those refugees. But when they saw it was unavoidable they said yes, it happened.

But it is so logical. For now, for the time being we have no foreign troops in our territory, even those specialists you have mentioned. We had several tries. All Albanian. Soldiers of Albanian army mixed with those bandits from Kosovo in the units composed of let us say 1000 or 1000 and a half to get to the frontier and to penetrate into territory of Kosovo and they were stopped by our army. They had very big losses they are not any army I must tell you and whoever is combining with recruiting those criminals into kind of military units doesn't know a lot about them.

They would escape on the first shot always and they show that. Whenever they have tried to get in through the borders they were running away back. So that happened several times. If there were some instructors with them foreign origin that was not seen uh so far. But they are instructing them in (town???), In Kukes, in some other place they are of course violating UN security council resolution prohibiting the delivery of arms uh so that is something that is so logical in a situation when practically United nations outvoted by your country.

United Nations charter prohibits aggression. Prohibits even any military intervention without decision of Security Council. In this case you abolish United Nations. Practically, your bombing destroyed first United Nations, destroyed the truth, and of course what is the most sad thing for us, killing our civilians and ruining our factories, bridges, housing area residential area and all those things..

And you know something which was the message printed, printed message in many areas all around Yugoslavia and I saw many of that in other countries for example in Thessolonica. There were many many people in demonstration, million in Athens, about that figure and so on, in Hungary, in Duseldorf, in Vienna, in many places around and uh one printed message was very illustrative uh, stop bombing stop lying.

Those two things are done together and uh that is explanation of those two wars you're running against one small, sovereign, independent country five thousand miles away from your coast. For what?

Could you explain to me for what, and what is America national interest? And you're trying to tell us that your national interest is stronger in our ancient territory than Serbian national interest in Serbian ancient territory and you're doing so for what? Where is the reason for that?

When our soldiers are dying, they know why they are dying,. They are dying for their homeland, for their fatherland and for what will die your soldiers 5000 miles from home? Killing children (while) they sleep? Killing women and girls and peaceful citizens and ruining what we were building through the decades after Second World War?

That is the main principle in this country, composed of 26 national communities and of course, ethnically pure Kosovo that separation movement explains as (unintelligible) And, in a historical sense they are followers. Mussolini created a greater Albania in Second World War. Fascist creation which took part of Kosovo, part of Macedonia and part of Greece. And that was so-called greater Albania created by Mussolini.

I think there is at least now 100 countries in the world which have problems with some kind of separation movement but it is only this country is bombed by strongest and most powerful war machinery ever existed in the world.

And who will gain the glory with those powerful and high technology ruining one small, independent country, member of UN? And what will the world look like after that practice? (The) world has to be free.

Every country, every people has a right to live in freedom, not to be occupied or terrorized by superpowers who will tell them how to live, what to do, what to think, and how to behave. So, we cannot divide peace from freedom.

If people want to live in peace, must be free and here on a territory about which empires we are fighting through the centuries, through all our history, there was no one generation who was not fighting for freedom. And we are always conquered by empires, by very big empires. (Names two empires) or, Hitler or big war machine and every time we liberated our country. That is what we are doing now.

And I believe in (the) future. I believe in peace, in equality and in freedom. Not only of this country of all countries, without domination of powers. They are dominant enough being superpowers they don't need other additional domination to the rest of the world.

So I believe we have used all of our time --- at least one hour I would say.

Dr. Hatchett:  President Milosevic I would like to thank you on behalf of the American people for sharing your views with us today and let's hope we can end this problem peacefully very soon. Thank you very much.

President Milosevic:  You're welcome.

(They shake hands)

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• Kosovo problem
• Albanian way to solve the problem
• NATO helps its Kosovo proxies